Industry Insider: Mike Page of Black Wax Skate Shop
adamsullivan
- February 05 2009
- 2,394 views
- 53 comments
Industry Insider is a Transworld Business column featuring the views and opinions of, you guessed it, members of the action sports industry. If you’d like to share your thoughts, opinions, initiatives, or other industry related tidbits, drop us a line at business@transworld.net.
In 2008, eight locally-owned San Diego skate shops closed down, and chain shops are taking their place—six Zumiez stores and three Actives replaced AM/FM, one Overboard, Gromitz, Orphanage, one Hanger 94, two Urbans, and I closed my Escondido Black Wax location.
Obviously, the economy has something to do with it, for sure. The holiday season was really soft for us—not even as good as back to school. Even taking the economy into account I thought we’d have done better. And after Christmas it slowed way down, like back to how it was in October. But I honestly think there’s more to do with over-saturation. I think that without all the Zumiez’ and Active’s opening, even in the poor economy, we could have done better.
When Zumiez opened up right next to us here, they were telling people to come down and price-check us, and offering five-percent lower. Which to me and you is stupid, but to kids—14, 15, 16 year old kids—you know how they can make something real small real big? That was just enough to take a lot of business away. And the thing that sucks is that they don’t really move hardgoods. There’s a Vans store here, same thing. Both Vans and Zumiez pretty much use their hardgoods for wallpaper. Every three months they put their skateboards on sale for $39.99 with grip, and blow them out, then get the new stuff that just came out, for wall decorations. This affects me, because every few months I can’t sell anything for a couple weeks.
Where we are now, in a mall in El Cajon, there are four places to buy skate gear. There used to be five, until Gromitz closed down. Now there’s Black Wax, Zumiez, PacSun, and Sun Diego. But I don’t hate on Sun Diego, because they actually do stuff for skateboarding. And being in the mall is good, because that’s where the kids are, but now its just too saturated. We were doing fine until Zumiez opened. And then down further south, Active opened. And I’m definitely seeing more and more Active boards around.
But I think the answer lies in me getting product that those places don’t have. They’re able to get things I can’t get, but I’m not able to do the same. Having something that the kids can only get here would give kids a reason to go to core shops. Krew is one of the few brands offering some products that are only available in core shops. I’m definitely all over that.
And for what it’s worth, I can’t knock companies selling to Zumiez, because I understand why they do it. Zumiez takes care of the off-the-path type markets—the Midwest, places there aren’t a lot of core shops. But when they move into southern California, in a place where there are already shops taking care of business, it’s too much.
I used to feel like shit for complaining about it, but then I realized that eight shops closed, while Zumiez and Active opened at least eight or nine stores. It kind of makes you think.
Black Wax is located at 311 Parkway Plaza, El Cajon, 92020.
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February 5th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Zumiez should go back to selling baseballs, basketballs and footballs…it sucks when the kids dont understand the difference between a big box shop and a core shop…sad.
February 5th, 2009 at 9:53 am
As a socal rep. I hate all big box stores! my area does great with my brand. Just does great in all the wrong stores that i dont make a penny off of… I really wish they would all go away somehow
February 5th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
dont have a skate shop in the mall retard!
February 5th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
i think your problem is you got so many deathwish decks on your wall. buy from real skateboarders at deluxe… or sober whiny assholes like Greco?
February 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
cool gridwall?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:41 am
i think the industry needs to support the smaller shops. if companys distributed there pro boards to mom and pop shops only kids would be forced to support them and they can still relase there logo boards to the larger shops. even if they came out with different color ways on decks and shoes that only went to privately owned shops kids would go out of there way hunt them down. if you deal with companys directly i would talk to them about doing a collab with the shop on some products.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
sun diego USED to do a lot for skateboarding. it will be interesting to see how much they do now that their only skate guy left for ccs..
February 6th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Thanks for posting this Adam! Things are really tough here in the trenches of retail. In San Diego 8 local shops closed in 2008. Meanwhile 6 Zumiez and 3 Active stores opened.
Something needs to change and it needs to change fast!
We need products and/or exclusive brands that only we can get. (kudos to Altamont)
So kids have a reason to come to us. So we can keep our margins.
-Mike
February 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
exactly! and get on a skateboard poser!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
The only people that shop at the mall is your grandma and emo losers looking for the Vans with the laces.
“Hey do you have these ones in a different color in the back?”
Losers
February 6th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I really like reading articles like this. I really enjoy hearing what retailers have to say. but don’t you think there could be other factors that may have something to do with it. location, product representation, brands carried… there are companies that support skate that don’t do well in big box stores.. Deluxe has really good wood, along with Podium, and NHS, especially now that they have flip! With a video dropping soon. Anti hero, Creature, Girl…
Location, if your located in the Mall, deal with the Mall shops… or move
I’ve never been to your store, but have seen photos from articles such as shop of the month I think…
how is your merchandising.. is your product easy to get to? is floor space enough to have nesting tables for denim, correct wall space for shoe brands, are you using rack that some companies offer…
please don’t think I am bashing black wax at all, I have only heard great things about the shop through the pipelines, but these are just a few things that have helped me in retail these days.
Possibly try and set up a mail-order and start small run it out of the shop, make a brand co-op calendar with discount days. Strange notes, mags like automatic, books such as the skate book.. All free and great items to draw people into the store…demos if possible with the mall deal, do flat bar sessions where anyone can skate during summer… I?ve noticed if you can grow close to the community biz will go up… customer loyalty helps
I hope you make it through the hard times Black Wax. it really is good to have shops around like yours, I only know of a few shops in SD that are legit
i wrote way to much
February 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Hey core buddy, I like core shops, I actually love them and hopefully you guys will read this. All I have to say is the big boxes are starting to get bashed hard too. Ever heard of the bigger you are the harder you fall!!!!! Sport Chalet is in forbearance right now, and Active is in trouble for sure!!! Just ask BURTON.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
You so right about Active , they credit worse than a Norco Crackhead right now , bigger they are ..true , also grow too much too soon bad growing pains , house of cards .
February 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
all i ever hear Mike do is cry.. how about you sell something and stop worring about everyone else?
Maybe?
February 6th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Support your local skateshop should apply to the vendors as well as the kids.
Hey all you vendors out there dont forget were you got your start….at your local skateshop!!!
Good luck
A.Dick
February 6th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
yeah, very true…anyone that really cared or gave back to the industry, especially in skate and snow, has been let go or quit sun diego by now. They are turning into an “industry’s” version of abercrombie/hollister, or pac sun, a corpo gorilla employing frat boys and mall rats, leaching off an image they are no longer true to…notice they let go their skate team? their last hope of legitimacy.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Yeah I cry, when I see your brand sitting next to SRH and Alpine Stars. I cry because it makes the term “authorized dealer” mean nothing. If I cry to you it means I hold your brand in high regard. Apparently thats my problem and I need to get over it.
I invest ALOT in my local scene by throwing premieres, demos, signings, shop team and I even carry local skate brands. I throw an event about every 3 months!
Bottom line is I’m losing mad sales to Zumiez and Active and if the industry wants to keep me (and what I do for my local community), I need their help with unique products.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Bravo Mike!
February 7th, 2009 at 7:15 am
I used to work for a pretty large company, and I hated I was responsible for opening one of the “Large” guys. I hated it mainly because it was selling out, and then second the company takes my commission. So for me doing the leg work, and making things happen, I take a beaten from the other guys, and don’t get that big check for the big guy. It sucks. Sucks for everyone. Whether your the rep, or the small core guy. You both get screwed.. I’ve always supported the local shops.. I have never bought anything at a pac sun, zumies, active, and any other mall chain. The core shops aren’t concerened about making the 100K so they can go to Boulder for free to snowboard and get free shit. The small guys make your visit worth while and will help you and share their knowledge.. So support your local guys, or else one day they may be gone. My shop I went to for years and years was effected by these guys as well. They changed their small beachy store to their shop now, since they couldn’t make it happen any longer in the big world. Shit sucks.. Support your core retailers.. They may not be around forever, shop there they will thank you, they pay their bills not a large corporation.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:29 am
it all needs to go back underground for a few years . READ , Catching up with Rob Willis “if you are in it for love and money you will adapt , if you are in it for love OF money , good riddance “. Not a skate guy , but it applies . My lady and i own a skate company , we don’t sell the “sun diegos” zumiez etc, They poison the field !
Good for you Mike , take a stand and cry loud , it’s a sad matter , greed has destroyed it all.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Good for Black Wax! Right on Mike, good job! Look guys, I’m all for the core shops, don’t misunderstand my point; We are in business for one thing…the bottom line: TO MAKE A PROFIT. In my case, whether I set up shop in a free standing building (let’s say a “core shop”) or in a mall, I’m in it to make money, plain and simple. What perplexes me, is that I’m called “greedy” (I’m NOT in a mall) because I want to make a profit, earn a decent living, and provide for my family. So, does that mean that I should stay “core and poor” and be looked upon as a “non-sellout to corporate greed” (Wow, I always wanted to be a hero!)? Am I not allowed research my options? This makes NO sense to me. So, anywho…keep up the hard work Mike, and do what YOU think is right for your shop and your customers!
February 7th, 2009 at 11:40 am
The next 12 months will naturally weed out alot of players in this industry that shouldnt be in it in the first place. As long as the core shops are smart about their orders and are financial literate and stay true, things will work out. The good thing about core shops is we don’t have to worry about our shareholders, just the skate scene. zumiez, pac sun, active, ccs they all have way more worries than we do. just give it 12-24 months…that is my prophecy.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Black is the new Green , Black Wax will rule as the black brotha’s rule the New World for the next 47 months . Eddie Murphy and Prince will star in a new Odd Couple show on BTV and make love , thus eclypsing MTV in ratings and establishing Eddie Murphy as the funniest man in America , negrodomous has soken .
February 8th, 2009 at 2:42 am
i heard that fat fuck buys quik too. fuck your shop.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Quicksilver? NEVER! You have wrong information my man. You should take a moment to get to know me…I’m pretty down.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I think I know who this is. There’s always going to be those kids that are purists. Don’t listen to them. Those people have personal problems that manifest into hate for everything.
Money, yes I need some, we all do. But not at the expense of stepping on other people to do it. Back to the ideals of our youth. We should be able to do both AND have fun with it. Money, of course, but I know that we are better than the sheep people that work downtown everyday, those trying to figure out ways to screw other people out of their money. The corporate drones. Those are the greedy people who we NEVER want to be like. And through skateboarding we found a way to not be like them. So now we are up against them and they don’t play by the same rules…and we are losing.
And here’s what’s happening. Walmart syndrome - Zumiez and Active are taking away owners and replacing them with managers. The brands must figure out what they want. Owners or managers?
February 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
owners vs managers , i like that , never heard it put that way . Check Zumiez 100k. thread , you are mentioned , if you want a chuckle Mike and keep up the good fight .
February 8th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
what wrong buying Quiksilver ? they sponsor number 1 American skater honorable Tony Hawk .
February 8th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I had a “core” shop once. It wasnt in the mall…we had a pro team we did rad shit for our skate scene and helped get an amazing skatepark built in SD. Guess what? It didnt help me one bit. My doors still closed due to poor sales.
I closed my shop because the times were changing. Besides a mini recession in 2002, many other shops had opened up including Mikes Black Wax and a few others. Everybody wanted to have a shop and “be down”. I cant blame anyone, we had come off a real good stint that started in 1996. Skating was killing it for a minute there.
The reality is big shops will always be around…K-5 is a core shop to some, but a mini-mall type store to others. Its all perspective…look, Moms will always be lured with low prices and convienent mall locations. Kids will be forced to support the closest shops if they dont drive yet. All this adds up to slim sales and low profit margins. Especially if you are a real skate shop and pride yourself on hardgoods as the backbone of your store.
Shops like Pacific Drive are one exception to the rule becasue they can filter in tourists that roam Pacific Beach. That and having a surf shop serves them well. Mike at Black Wax has done a good job with what he has as well. I was one of the guys that urged him not to do open a store because there just wasnt any money in it. Especially if you dont have a large amount of money behind you. He did it anyway because he was down to try something on his own and something real to support skateboarding. Kudos to him for that. Hopefully he can get through this awful recession and keep on giving kids a place to identify with. Lets hope… because all signs are pointing to real core shops getting drilled for the next 6-12 months.
What if Skating does go back “underground”? Will Zumiez and CCS and all those mall stores still support all the big Skate companies? Wouldnt it be real interesting if all the manufacturers had to go back into all those little mom-n-pop shops and apologise for neglecting them when times were good. The funny part is, all the little guys who complain and threaten
to stop carrying those brands would be all over the nuts of DC, QUIk and all the other companies who turned their back on them. Its how it goes.
So the moral is if you want to make money, dont open a core little shop. If you want to make a difference in your community and in kids lives, then open a shop and embrace all the fun times while they last. Because in the long run, money comes and money goes but if your store made a difference it will be remembered for years and years.
Good luck peoples!
February 8th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
one thing for sure active will be closing some doors. If you want to make it thru this, All the store owners need to be working the sales floor in their stores. Just like in the beginning. The chains cannot do this, and buy direct and work with the suppliers. I like some of the distributors, but the only way to be competitive is to deal direct, and shop for come closeouts to cost dollar average your margins. I walked the mall( WHich is painful) And most of those stores are truly aweful. I personally would never put a core store in a mall. The mall is not for trend setters it is for trend followers.
And one last thing, if opened a store to get rich you made a bad move. You do it for the love of the sport, and hopefully you can live off doing what you enjoy.
keep a simple life
peace
February 8th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
yeah fuck active. those guys are brilliant. won’t have to be worrying about them pretty soon…
February 8th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
they better be brilliant at getting loans !
February 9th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
IF YOU ARE A REAL SKATEBOARDER IN SAN DIEGO, YOU KNOW THE REAL SKATESHOPS. STREET MACHINE, PACIFIC DRIVE, WILLY’S WORKSHOP,ROUTE 44,ALLIED BOARDSHOP, MC GILLS.
IF SHOP ANYWHERE ELSE YOU ARE 1. A KID, 2. SOME DEUCHE BAG LOOKING FOR THE NEW VANS ERA COLOR, 3. RETARDED.
SKATING ON A ACTIVE OR ZUMIEZ BOARD IS LIKE RIDING A BIG COCK IN YOUR ASS. FUCKING GAY!
February 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
DONT FORGET URBAN AND ASYLUM
February 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
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faggot
February 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
agreed. i bought my first board at mcgill’s when i was five…….seventeen years ago….thats a true fucking skateshop!
February 9th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
most already do…Vans do for example.
February 9th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Some really f*ckin? stupid posts here. Good luck Mike I wish you all the best…
February 10th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Maybe if your store wasn’t all of 30 square feet then people could actually shop in it. Just a though. Its pretty hard to stock all this legit “core shop only” product you keep whining about when you can’t even fit a floor rack in your shop.
If your going to put up your shop in the mall then you’re going to have to deal with all the other shops that are located in the mall. Did you think that you were going to open up your shop and all other shops were going to be like “oooo Black Wax opened up in there, we can’t put a shop in there?” These other shops exist. Deal with it
February 10th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Ha Ha There Is Some Dumb Sass posts Here. To Start A Skate Shop Does Not Always Mean To Be In It For The Profit. That Only Applies To Corporate Public Skate Shops ex Zumie’s , PacSun, or Any Other So Called Shop That Has A Bid And A Market Cap With Stocks!!! Skate Shops Dont Make Profit, If You Want To Make A Profit, Buy A McDonalds. Local Shops Are In It From The Beginning For Skating, Because If We Were Not We Would Invest Are Money In More Lucrative Places!! Dude With The Problem About Getting The Skate Park That Is A F’ing Awesome Thing You Did For The Community But Dont Bitch That You Didnt Get Anything Out Of It Because U Didnt Do it Right!! Your Fault!!! For The Guy At The About Deathwish Check Out Lizard King You Brand Whore!!!
February 10th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
I’d love to see what your shop looks like since you’re so busy criticizing someone else’s hard work.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
We all know that the Zumiez, Actives and CCS’ will do what they need to survive. If the skate market takes a big dump, then those big retailer will sale whatever’s in at that time (pogo, scooters, go carts). It’s a business and you can’t blame them for that, they have a lot of “children” to feed. Someone like Pacific Drive is an exception. But, not everyone has the luxury of being located at one of the biggest Bro beaches in the USA. When I look back on my skate experiences growing up, I have great memories of hanging out, meeting up and skating the parking lot of the local skate shop. I feel that if you’re going to be a indy/core shop, then you have to create an environment that nurchers the local skate scene and caters to them. I think Mike and Black Wax has done an exceptional job of that. They’ll be around for a long time as a result. They’ll also learn from this experience.
I think you hit the nail on the head with “If you want to make a difference in your community and in kids lives, then open a shop and embrace all the fun times while they last. Because in the long run, money comes and money goes but if your store made a difference it will be remembered for years and years.” I think that applies to so many business’, not just in skateboarding. If you do something because you love it, and if you do make a difference, then the compensation will follow.
For all of the knuckle heads talking smack about Mike Page- Know this, he’s one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and he’s done more for Skateboarding in the last 10+ years than you ever will. Go check out his shop and meet him and the rest of the awesome folks at Black Wax, and then buy something.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:00 am
FUCK QUIK!
February 19th, 2009 at 10:39 am
YO BHAWK,
VANS……What the hell are you talking about?
They are the biggest WHORES in the industry.
JC PENNYS,SEARS,MERVINS what next WAL MART.
Screw Vans. What color authentics are you wearing bhawk?
March 5th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
ive baught 1 shop board and one pro board from black wax and all the kids at my school skate black wax so all you faggots that have something against black wax you must not know what a real skateshop is
March 9th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
sounds tuff man.my problem is, my shops in canada and it snows half the year , and non of the bigger brands wanna be a part of smaller shops , but one closses one opens someone will allways be willing to wasts there money on a skate shop . but yeah tough brake . i hope everything works out well for ya .
March 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Owning a skateshop is a lot harder then most people think. And over the years I have tried to take time to visit shops when I go out of town just to see what people are doing… I think the main thing is to try and pt yourselves in a kids shoes. Active set the standard pretty high for shops in Southern California. As much as you may hate them they did a really good job at representing brands, building out stores, promoting skateboarding events, and bringing in the best product. We all know the bottom line for them was to make a profit but kids expect a certain look and feel from shops no a days. Ive never been to Mikes store but just by looking at the photo above it really reminds me of skateshops I used to shop at in the 80’s and 90’s. I just never understood how these stores make it in the current times. I know everyone wants to be “Core” or “Small” and be a real skateboard store…. but its time to face the facts… kids are looking for more now a days and youre going to have to sell stuff to the kooky kid to pay the rent and be able to have events to keep promoting skateboarding the right way.
Good luck Mike. Maybe you should look at renting out a bigger location outside of the mall (prices are extremely cheaper, especially now) and expand your business.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
mike it is me the kid who went to arbys for u
October 15th, 2009 at 2:24 am
mike why you close down it sucks reopen fag!jk
October 16th, 2009 at 2:50 am
caca face
October 16th, 2009 at 5:06 am
can i have all the medium shirts that u still have please?
November 7th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
re open u gay fag jk u have the best shoes ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is the kid that went with that richard kid love ricky
November 7th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
richard can i have all small shirts tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! p.s i treyfliped a 20 stair to bad u didnt open u cud have sponsered me niggie