Shop Spy: Outerwear Knowledge
Steven Hemphill
- November 26 2009
- 18 comments
What do Mata Hari, 007, and TransWorld Business have in common? They could be spying on you at any moment! It’s certainly no secret that core shops must differentiate themselves on superior service and product knowledge. “Bro, bra, blah, blah” doesn’t cut it these days, and our new column, Shop Spy, puts core shop employees to the test on their ability to answer hot button, frequently asked questions.
In this installment of Shop Spy we made covert phone calls to snow retailers across the nation posing the following inquiry:
“I need new outerwear this season and am looking for something that’s going to keep me super dry. What’s the difference between the different fabrics companies are using and what would you recommend, and why?”
Here is the best and worst of what we heard:
“It’s key to have a waterproof jacket…As far as Gore Tex is concerned different styles work in different ways. Gore has different membranes like the 2L and 3L, which are constructed differently for different uses. Depending on the jacket, the Gore membrane is placed where it will be most efficient and is in most cases laminated or molded into the piece. The snow here (Washington) is really wet, and really heavy, it will make a big difference to have a waterproof jacket that will keep you dry and warm when you need to be!”
Melody Forbes
Snowboard Connection
Seattle, WA
“We only carry real good stuff. I’d say it is easiest to just stop in and see what we have. It’s all quality stuff we have so you should just come put some stuff on and see what you like.”
A Wisconsin Snow Shop
“Here in the Northwest the snow is really wet. I ride pants and a jacket that are 20,000 to 10,000 or 20/10. What those numbers represent are the waterproof and breathability of the outerwear. The higher the waterproof rating usually the less breathability there is. The numbers in jackets range from 2,000 to 20,000 and go even higher…I’d say any product with Gore Tex in it is the best for up here. It keeps you dry and is usually lighter. If it is really cold you can put a base layer underneath it and still be comfortable.”
Sheena Darling
Exit Real World
Salem, OR
“All the fabrics are pretty much the same. There are only so many ways you can make things waterproof. Each company has their own waterproofing brand or buys it from someone like Gore Text but they are all similar… All the jackets we sell are good enough, I’d say the materials in our jackets are really, really waterproof so you should be fine.”
A Massachusetts snowboard shop
“Staying warm and dry is key. Waterproof ratings go anywhere from 2,000 to 30,000 mm and essentially how they get those ratings are they take a beaker and take measurements of how much water that penetrates a square inch of fabric. Gore Tex is the best, you can find it on some pieces from brands like Arcteryx and Burton, but it is expensive. If you want to save some money but still get a good product Bonfire and 686 make jackets with their own version of Gore Tex that are both water repellant and breathable and are at a good price point. Here (Vermont) as long as you have something that is 10,000 or above and breathes you will be in good shape. You want to make sure you get a jacket that can perform whether you are hiking the pipe or are in the backcountry. You can always put a plastic bag over you and stay dry, but it won’t breathe or work well for long.”
Matty Hauke
Out of Bounds Snowboard Shop
Killington, VT
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November 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Great idea! Manager's should take heed o
November 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Obviously, Gore Tex still is the #1 reference when any waterproof/breathability questions are brought up…
November 27th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Obviously you phoned and asked the question. The first answer that you gave a thumbs down to was probably the best. The person who answered pumped their shop and told the customer to come down and try some jackets on. I am always wary of talking with customers on the phone about tech issues or personal opinions on product because they could easily just be questioning you so they can make that purchase online.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Actually, there are a lot of companies/fabrics out there that do have similar if not better performance than 'GoreTex'. I've done a fair bit of fabric testing, all results based on ASTM standards for waterproofness, breathability, wear/abrasion. Examples of competitors; Sympatex, Ventile, eVent® fabrics, Entrant by Toray Industries, Inc….to name a few. The only thing that Gore has is the money and marketing power to push the name; what other brand of fabric besides Schoeller advertises on billboards and airport luggage trolleys.
So when selling to the customer check into the fabrics, help the customer make an informed decision and make them feel happy that you've just relieved them of that hard earned recession cash.
cheers
November 28th, 2009 at 1:24 am
actually what gore has is durability. Its kinda funny though. Of course the northwest guys know fabrics. Its wet as hell there. All they wear is gore, or at least 20 K.
I would like you to call a box store in seattle and see what their response is. Perhaps city by city in a more fair rating.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Exactly!! Now a days the name of the game is getting people in your door….
November 29th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I like the juxtaposition of shops. First they called SnoCon, a shop that is really killing it with their quality of service and selection of product. Then they called a Zumiez and talked to some tight-pants-wearing, shaggy-headed 16-year-old about something obviously way over his head. So where would you shop if you had the choice? Obviously rhetorical.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
This was cool when Future Snowboard Trade News used to do it. Where's the originality? Also anyone that believes Gore Tex is the standard is fooling themselves.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
ok, I assume the gore shot is at me, whats better smart guy?
December 1st, 2009 at 1:28 am
well i'm not sure why you would think a box store should be able to answer technical questions like that. the whole point of this was to see what core shops knew! if you expect joe blow #19 at box store #4879 to acutally know about his kind of shit, you are sadly mistaken my friend
December 1st, 2009 at 1:32 am
anyone who believes that goretex isn't a good product is a fucking idiot and is probably from fucking upstate NY where they dont actually get powder. ride in the NW or Alaska some day and tell me how your 10k holds up
December 1st, 2009 at 1:37 am
HAHA! seriously? what customer is going to want to shop somewhere that wont even answer questions over the phone??
regardless, even if someone is not planning on shopping at your store you should still provide them with amazing customer service. if not, next time they are thinking about purchasing something, they are probably going to think "man, im not shopping there, they didnt help me at all last time i called there!!"
so maybe if your trying to get customers into the store, maybe start by showing them that your knowledgeable and they might actually want to shop with you!
weird concept huh???
December 1st, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I will say the reply about getting people in the shop has become valid. I am a fan of informing people, but I do believe there is quite a bit of info going over the phone to someone who is buying it somewhere else. What the hell is with people these days? Are they really that stupid and ignorant? Its pathetic
December 1st, 2009 at 6:38 pm
rm2, right on the money.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:06 am
Yeah, it obviously worked for them
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 am
They dont even carry Gore products at Zumiez, Snocon's AK Wall is outrageous. There are probally 200+ pieces there.
"Sympatex, Ventile, eVent® fabrics, Entrant "
I have tried these products and do not perform to Gore standards. Most gore products also have a LIFETIME WARRANTY which shits on those companies.
"Also anyone that believes Gore Tex is the standard is fooling themselves"
Come to MT BAKER. Anyone without gore is turns into a wet dog.
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:56 am
well I am assuming you don't own or work at a store. The sad reality is people have the nerve to call a store, spend 30 minutes of their time, and then buy it online. People for some reason they think this is an ok approach. Don;t ask me why.
My point is, to ask people who sell snow product. What are you saying, the box guys get a free pass, cause we don't expect them to know anything?
you either got your head in the sand or your funny
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Hmm….Gore rep? eVent® fabrics was actually designed and developed by someone who worked at Gore; there's a bit of a blood feud between them. if a brand were to make something in Event and also have a Gore line, Gore will pull all licensing and won't sell to that brand.
"outrageous."
I wear a Gore Pro-shell and it wets out; in the backcountry up in Pemberton, Whistler, Baker etc.