Firewire Surfboards To Cease Delivering Fins With Boards
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On September 26, Firewire Surfboards announced to its retail partners that it will no longer be including fins with its boards. The company says this move will enable it to offer a lower MSRP to its customers as well as a better margin for retailers. This decision is sure to spark discussion as it’s a departure from the traditional way that boards are sold. Stay tuned to Transworld Business as this story unfolds for interviews with Firewire CEO Mark Price and key players from the surf accessory/ fin market.
Here’s the letter from Firewire Surfboards:
Hello Firewire Retailers,
We’re constantly striving to improve the performance of our surfboards and the
quality of our business practices. With this in mind we’re going to take the
unprecedented step of delivering our boards without fins. We realize this is a radical
departure from the traditional way boards are sold, but we firmly believe it is in the
best interests of our retailers (more margin), our customers (a lower MSRP) and
most importantly the planet!
In addition, we believe if adopted by others it will spur innovation and interest in fin
design and performance.
The right move for the environment:
• We believe that the positive environmental impact of not forcing surfers to
purchase fins they may not need and thereby reducing waste is important. In
fact, we’ve actually reduced the Firewire wholesale margin on every surfboard
sold because of our belief in this change. Of course we’re counting on surfers
recognizing we’ve lowered our environmental footprint and the $50.00 MSRP
reduction will increases sales, a win for everyone if we’re right. But we’re
willing to take the hit without penalizing our retailers if we’re wrong because
we believe in this.
We’ve put our money where our mouth is:
• Our manufacturing margin has shrunk because we have lowered our
wholesale by a greater dollar amount than the fin cost saving and the margin
we add to that component. We felt this was important to ensure that there
was no financial penalty to our retail partners if a surfer purchased a Firewire
and decided to use an existing fin set. In fact, with a bundled sale (new board
and upgraded fin together), our retailers stand to increase their Firewire
margin by 2% on each sale. Something sorely needed in surfboards right
now.
There will be no change in the existing fin compatibility of our model mix with both
Futures (Direct Drive) and FCS. We hope that the table below will answer most of
your questions and we will be in direct contact shortly to discuss. We also have a
fairly simple program to transition your existing inventory to the new business
model.
Sincerely,
Firewire Surfboards
Information Attached To Letter:
1). Many retailers offer discounts on fin upgrades and surfers routinely request credits for plastic fin trade ins when upgrading fins for a new surfboard.
2). In such cases with a bundled sale (new board and fin purchase), our retailers increase their total margin by 2%. This is effectively the fin margin transfer that Firewire has passed along to our retailers.
3). Retailers no longer have to pay for, or stock a set of fins for every Firewire surfboard in inventory = a lower carrying cost of Firewire inventory. And retailers avoid the hassle of accounting for the exact fins shipped with a particular board.
4). Many surfers already have fins and will elect to purchase the surfboard for a $50.00 discount and use their own fins. Our retailers make the same dollar margin as before, and surfers get a BETTER price to value equation. Boards are a more attractive proposition = increased turn.
5). All boards will come with a detailed ‘FACTORY SPEC’ Fin Specification sticker - see below
Summary of Benefits for our Retailers:
1). Lower cost of Firewire inventory
2). Faster turnover due to lower MSRP.
3). Increased margin on sale without fins.
4). Extra margin for add on sale with fins.
5). The Fin category becomes more important at retail.
6). More fin options for surfers will push fin innovation.
7). Doing the right thing for the environment.
Summary of Benefit for the Surfers:
1). Lower cost if a surfer chooses to buy a board without fins.
2). Choice as to whether or not they need fins.
3). Increased fin selection and price point, as surfers are not tied to one fin or price point.
4). Doing the right thing for the environment.
Tags: fcs, firewire, future fins, surf, Surf Industry, surfboards
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Unlike metal or cloth or leather or paper or glass or most of the other substances we humans discard, intentionally or unintentionally, plastic is the garbage that never disappears, never degrades, never goes away. Most everything else we throw away rusts or bio-degrades or otherwise eventually returns to the inert or organic constitute components from which is was made. Not plastic. It may break into smaller pieces, eventually after many years of sand and surf becoming a kind of plastic dust with its own set of problems, but it never, ever really goes away. I am quite sure that thousands of years from now, future geologists will have no problem recognizing this era in history by the layer of plastic dust in the geological record.
Smart move guys. I’ve been surfing long enough to know that my fins are as good as they where two years ago. less waste the better for our kids. With the price now next too PU boards I can now think about adding a winter board to my quiver.
Sounds cool. I’d rather pick out my own fins at the store anyways. I have a ton of plastic fins sitting around that I don’t use anyway. Funny thing about the whole enviro carbon footprint bit as firewire has effectively shut down its US manufacturing and is shipping all product from southeast asia which equal much larger carbon foot print than the Domestic manufacturer. And it is a known fact that EPS/Epoxy has a much longer landfill life that P/U Poly. Though not by much. I really like the idea behind firewire, but surboards are toxic anyway you make them. So lets not pretend that anyone is being green. Especially the oversees manufacturers. And you may clean the toilets in your factory with citrus but orange peels don’t clean hardened epoxy from tar paper. Just a few thoughts to consider. Stoked on the product though. One of my favorite boards. Just keep the story straight. Peace.
Is this what is has come to???? Plastic mania…
Joe,
Every business has to make trade offs to balance a viable business model with environmental responsibilities. Our boards are simply too labor intensive and complex to profitably build in the USA (like most other hi tech sporting equipment everyone uses), so that is not an option. We certainly gave it our best shot for 18 months but it was not possible.
On the broader environmental front, what we can do is revisit our business model where ever it DOES make sense in an effort to be the best corporate citizen we can be. We’ve got a long way to go, but clearly we’re willing to take some risks and invest money to be better.
As far as epoxy versus poly goes, you’re right about the landfill comment, but the toxic emissions of Epoxy emitted during the manufacturing process DO dwarf those of poly, and citrus cleaners are used to clean hot coat brushes and other equipment in the factory. And yes, they also work well on the toilets!
Stoked you like the boards and respect your comments.
Best regards,
Mark Price
CEO Firewire Surfboards.
Ps Joe, sorry for the poor grammar above re epoxy emissions. I meant to say that epoxy emits a small fraction of the VOC’s (volatile organic compounds) versus poly.
‘Firewire regrets the error’
Best regards,
Mark
Mark, firewire quality is shit and your are destroying the industry with an idea from Bert Berger. get a life.
Limo, Bert has not been involved with Firewire for the past 18 months, so we have no idea of his position on this issue. As far as the merits of our position, we spent a couple of months weighing up the pro and cons before taking this step. We’re confident it’s going to benefit Firewire’s retailers, our customers and our impact on the environment.
If it does not make sense for other manufacturers or their retailers and customers, I’m sure they will not follow suit, which is certainly their prerogative. From my experience, the market always benefits from fresh perspectives over the long term. Good ideas flourish and bad ones fall by the wayside.
That being said, and I’m not being facetious here, we are very interested in your analysis of how an idea that improves retail margins (specialty stores are the lifeblood of our industry and feeling pressure on a number of fronts), lowers the MSRP for many surfers, gives surfers more choice at retail, and reduces waste, will negatively impact the surfboard industry?
Thanks,
Mark
Fuck you Mark, I know who you are and you dont speak like that. Before you talk down to me I’ll let you know I have 2 more degrees that you do including an IMBA. Furthermore, I wont give you my ideas so you can steal them just like you stole firewire from Bert. Thanks for what you have done to the industry. Wanker.
What with the choice of fin templates and flex available to customers, I see this as a progressive move on Firewire’s part. Hats off to Mark, Rod, Chuy and the guys for their committment in putting out great, progressive product.
those cheap plastic fins that come free with all boards are shit anyway.. why pay 500-1000 for a board and not fork out another 50 for some good carbon fins
Firewires are still pop outs and now only come from over seas. I just do not have respect for any surfboard that can not be customized - you just pop out boards all day and say this is what you should ride. I know that anyone who has been surfing for sometime understands this and looks at these boards(maybe not firewire but everyone else) as a joke. This move to no fins is to bring down the price of a board that is way over priced.
I think this is a good move on Firewire’s part. I’d guess that the majority of Firewire consumers know what fins they want anyway.
In terms of being green, I don’t think Mark and team are trying to claim to be the most eco-friendly kids in the ocean, so don’t ding them on that. Any steps we can take to leave a lighter footprint are steps in the right direction. Carpooling, bringing your own bag to the grocery store, selling boards without fins… anything that can help prevent this is a good thing:
http://lstudio.lexus.com/#vid334
Haha…what a joke. I bet the real reason has to do with some sort of shipping tariff with Thailand or China. Those guys are kings of spin.
Thanks for including that link Bill, hope everyone takes two minutes to watch that.
Chris, You are mistaken about something; Firewire builds custom surfboards for a select few, and yes, still in San Diego. I respect how ordering a custom appeals to you and others, as
I am a bigger guy, and have trouble finding the right board if I cannot dicate the thickness.
I have still found a few Firewires that work for me in their product mix.
They have over FORTY different sizes of shortboard, and seven different longboards.
Regarding the overpriced comment, who is really paying too much? Most surfers who buy an industry leading brand are paying over $600 for a 4oz. glassed PU board; which has far less impact or break resistance than a Firewire sandwich construction/epoxy laminate.
My two cents.
Rod
Your comment “Firewire builds custom surfboards for a select few, and yes, still in San Diego.” has nothing to do with everyone outside of the select few so that is really not relevant. Plus, I’m saying it is over priced for a board that isn’t even custom built.
Chris
Chris,
I’m not sure how you measure value, but to my mind a board’s value is a function of both performance and price. If you don’t like the way a board rides, then even a $300.00 surfboard is too expensive. Conversely, if you love the way a board rides, its value would be much greater. But to trash a boards value purely because of its construction method makes no sense.
And just to set the record straight, Firewire’s are machine shaped (like most boards today) and hand laminated, not ‘popped’ out of a mold. We believe that the performance bears out this distinction.
Customs: We do have the ability to make custom boards, but due to the complexities of setting up our own factory from scratch, we’re not ready to offer those to the market yet, but we will by mid 2009.
Regarding an earlier post about shipping restrictions - there are no barriers in this regard. In fact Firewire get a full refund on the import duties for fins shipped into Thailand when the finished boards are exported. This is a common governmental practice in many parts of the world. While there might be dissenting opinions on the merits of our decision, I can assure you there is nothing conspiratorial going on here.
Best regards,
Mark
Well we established one thing here - Rod T must work for firewire and has no idea what those numbers on his stringer mean.
Thanks for the comment Mark,
- I’m not trashing Firewire its just hard for me to walk into a store where they have 10 firewire boards on the rack and say this is what you get - OK you have forty different sizes but I know what I ride. So if that 5′10″ doesn’t come 2 inches thick then its hard to justify spending $700 on a new board. If I wanted to be told what to ride then I would just buy used boards that I felt where close to what I like. Until firewire boards become customizable then I don’t think they can really not fall into the pop out category on some level. Don’t get me wrong I would love a firewire and hopefully will be able to get a custom one day soon.
Chris
Okay, what I am hearing from you is that the board needs to be 1/8″ thinner here, or a 1/16″ inch wider there, and that is a custom board?
I can set you up with a bunch of shapers who will be willing to write “for Chris” on the stringer for an extra hundred dollars on one of their almost-stock boards.
They will be a hundred bucks richer for your ego, shredder.
PS- That last comment is “Dear Chris”
I don’t mind paying the “$100 custom fee” for my board to say “for Turd”. It beats paying the extra $300 for a Firewire that may not say Turd, but if it looks like a duck…
Turd Ferg
When Chandler was teaching me to surf on his old Koa Wood board in ‘86, I didn’t even need a fin. I just used my back foot - dragged it off the side of the rail. It worked bra, it worked…
Then, once Chandler saw me up and yelled out “Bend your knees, work on your turns!” I just started getting the hang of it and ripping… eventually making the final at the Pipe Classic!
So - forget fins, we don’t need ‘em.
Now go on, go up to the hills bra, wrap a pumice rock in a tea leaf and make a wish…
-Rick Cane
No one listen’s to Turtle bra!
The fundamental issue here is the separation of fins and board. As someone who has plenty of fins already, I absolutely welcome this move. I see it as an instigator for fin-novation. You don’t get “free” bindings with your snowboard…
If someone feels the boards are too expensive, or are perceived as illegitimate due to their construction methods, that is their opinion. If this opinion is based on experience of the product then fair enough. If not, then the abject myopia of it is ludicrous and should not garner any response from a company that is being transparent , innovative, and open to public discourse.
and…
“Go for it Rick!”
Good on ya Firewire. Great idea. Who wants the crap plastic fins anyways. I think Merrick, JS and every other shaper should follow your lead. No matter if I’m buying a custom shaped board or an off the rack stocker I would be stoked to save a few $$ to not have the fins. I always buy better fins later and the plastic ones are just a waste.
For alot of the people replying back on this page your fin knowledge appears to be above average. What about the majority of surfers who are clueless about fin templates and materials. That customer should be able to walk out of the door with fins or fin that is appropriate for the board, not just something that a lame salesperson thru on it. The same holds true for buying a new board and then going home and sticking in what ever fins you have in your old board or just lying around the house. A good fin set up can make an ok board great and a great board even better. Explaing the +s and -s of different fin templates should be talked thru with any body who is buying a board. Test centers are available for people to try out the latest designs and materials. One should take advantage of this option as well as the knowledge of their shaper or favorite surf shop person.
Bird,
you’re 100% correct and is cases where a store neglects to do that, I’m sure 99% of surfers who want the fins with purchase will follow our recommended factory spec sticker which will be on all boards. The sticker lists both the hi end fin option (our preference) as well as other less expensive options in the same template.
the only problem with this idea that the shop will make a greater margin & the consumer saves a few bucks is- the guy that was going to ugprade his fins more than likely would get hooked up buy his “bro” at the shop any way shrinking the overall margin. You’ll have to do a better job marketing optimal fin selections per board (basically copy the Snowboard Industry ie. Burton catologs the kids usualy will walk in with everything picked out & the shop monkey just has to say cash or credit.) As far as the environmental B.S. get off the band wagon and let my people drill. Remember the 70’s better living through Dow chemicals, leisure suits and plastics rule! Or you could just buy some carbon credits from Al Gorelioni to make everybody “feel” like their helping out the environment. Yes, I do bekieve in protecting the environment, but let’s be real about it. The countries most of these boards are made in are destroying their environments, nor do they care about their workers. Sure, we can tell the consumer a great “green” story about their product that was just made through slave labor or in a factory without proper safety controls for their workers. Or you realy wanted to take a stand build it right here in the USA & charge higher prices, but know you were building a clean worker friendly quality product (now that would be revolutionary). Good Luck Firewire.
Dan,
Even in the case of the guy getting hooked up by this ‘bro’ the retailer still makes that extra margin on the sale versus Firewire - even if its not the full retail margin on the fin.
As far as Asia is concerned - we own and operate our own factory in Thailand run by two Australian Surfers, with western style working conditions, above avg. manufacturing wages, safety programs and recycling of all our EPS waste. Are we perfect?- no! But we do build an infinitely less toxic surfboard than PU in a well run, non-exploitive factory.
As far as USA based manufacturing: Our boards are simply too labor intensive and complex to profitably build in the USA (like most other hi tech sporting equipment everyone uses), so that is not an option. We certainly gave it our best shot for 18 months but it was not possible.
On the broader environmental front, what we can do is revisit our business model where ever it DOES make sense in an effort to be the best corporate citizen we can be. We’ve got a long way to go, but clearly we’re willing to take some risks and invest money to be better.
Best regards,
Mark
to all the egg heads, who think pop-outs are gay, THINK AGAIN.
1- do you really think there is that much difference between a pro’s custom order and a pop out ?
2- virtually every shaper now use MACHINE technology - ie a computer and machine cut the blank to within 95 % completion. Blank then goes to a guy who does a quick 5 second sand, then glasses (at the local shop).
3- the windsurfing community have been riding pop-outs for over 15 years.
4- i have 2 had firewire’s for over 18 months, no breaks snaps. More flex, faster, overal Better VALUE for money.
ps. I think its also good they’ve chosen to ditch the fins. FCS are overrated.
PPS. try something new, if we didn’t we’d all still be riding 10ft D fins.
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