Jake and Donna Speak Out On Burton Graphic Controversy
mike lewis
- November 25 2008
- 35 comments
At this point in the game, Burton’s Love and Primo lines need no introduction. The protests surrounding these boards’ graphics, which feature a PG rated Playboy collaboration and a cartoon depiction of hands being cut up respectively, have gained national attention due to the attempts of protesters seeking to get Burton to discontinue the line. Transworld Business sat down with Jake Burton Carpenter and Donna Carpenter to get their take on the brouhaha.
TWB: You’ve been tight lipped on this issue up until now, why’d you decide to discuss this?
Photo: Jeff Curtes
Jake Burton Carpenter: In the past whenever something has gotten close to what some people perceive as a line, there’s been some noise and then it usually has gone away. In the case of these groups and people that have spoken up, it just hasn’t backed off and people were, we feel, misrepresenting the product. It’s not pornography. The Primo boards are not promoting self-mutilation in any way. We’ve talked to snowboarders and other people about that, and Donna has even talked to a mother of a girl who cuts herself, and she was like “to think that that would inspire somebody to get involved with cutting themselves, it’s just so off the mark.” And to think that one of the Love boards, and if you know Mikkel or Keegan, they’re two of the nicest kids in the world and it’s not about promoting any sort of sexual harassment or anything along those lines. It’s the fact that kids want to ride on stuff that their parents would never go near, and that’s part of snowboarding for all of us. The fact that we embrace that and address it and do it in a tasteful and sophisticated way with a sense of humor, we think that’s what Burton has always been about.
TWB: Is this pretty much the end of this issue as far as you’re concerned?
JBC: Probably the issue’s going to end when people stop listening to the opposition saying the same things. We’re going to keep saying the same things too, but I don’t know, I don’t think it’s really in our hands. I think we’ve sort of spoken our piece and we’d like to move on. Deal with the economy, deal with some of the issues that are coming down the line and get people out riding. I think all we’re doing as a company is getting kids away from their computer screens, away from their video games, doing a healthy activity on the hill. I mean that’s what I think this whole industry is about.
Photo: Adam Moran
Donna Carpenter: I think people asked us to speak up because this thing, at least in Vermont, had gotten sort of crazy press on one side and so people were like “the boards aren’t pornography, they’re not self mutilation, we want to hear from you guys.” So I think that we’re trying to speak not to the small group of individuals that oppose us, but to the majority of people, especially snowboarders, who disagree with the opponents and support us.
JBC: I don’t think that in particular the women that are speaking out about this are snowboarders in most all cases, and I don’t think they have a clue as to what Burton has done for women’s snowboarding. We’ve always had a very strong women’s team. We’ve won the last two gold medals in the pipe with Vermont girls that we’ve supported from a very young age. We’ve got a great line of women’s products, we do women’s ads. I mean look at the U.S. Open offering equal prize money; we’re the first major contest to do that. I don’t think these women are aware of that.
DC: I think that we’ve got the reputation in the industry as really being a leader internally with women. I’ve done the women’s leadership initiative and we do mentoring programs and training programs and we do everything we can to attract more women into the sporting goods business and to stay here and to make a career here and then to promote them into leadership positions. Both in terms of what we’re doing for women snowboarders, and what we’re doing internally for the women here, we’re leaders and good examples.
TWB: It’s really well known within the snowboard community - with all the effort you’ve put forward to help women, this must feel like a slap in the face.
JBC: Exactly.
DC: Yeah it does.
TWB: Why do you think this has gotten so much traction in the VT community?
DC: I think that it was a really small group of people that really made it their mission in life. I don’t think there’s a local media outlet that they haven’t contacted or a snowboard publication that they haven’t contacted or a resort or a dealer. They’re really working hard.
TWB: Knowing what you know now about this response, would you go ahead and make these lines again?
DC: Yeah. It goes through a process -the women in the company said “We’re ok with this,” and the riders want it. It’s sophisticated, its got a sense of humor. We’re not appealing to the lowest common denominator. Like Jake said, we’re doing what we’ve always done best, which is develop graphics that kids want. We listen to snowboarders.
JBC: There’s a reason that we haven’t sold the company or gone public and that’s so we can make the right decision for the company and for the sport and for the industry, and that’s what we’ve always done. We have that liberty – we don’t answer to anybody. We don’t have 10,000 shareholders calling us up and complaining about our stock price. We do what’s right in the long term in our perspective.
TWB: And then when things like this come along you don’t have to make any concessions?
JBC: Yeah, we deal with it. Believe me, the people that these boards were designed for, if we had a protest going on outside that was 18 year-old male snowboarders lined up around the block, we’d be pretty damn responsive. We listen as a company; I think that’s what we’re built on. Craig Kelly taught me how to listen and I’ve been doing it ever since and that’s what we’re built on and that’s why we’ve been in a pretty good spot for a long time.
TWB: What’s the response been on a personal level in your community?
JBC: Its been funny. You basically get two types of calls. Whether its from other parts of the country or in Europe, it’s like “What’s going on there? Is there like book burnings going on there? Where do you live?” The Europeans are amused by it. One of the things I saw was “from the epicenter of pornography being the U.S., how could people be upset about these boards?” It’s hilarious. And then locally, you get people just saying “I’m sorry. I don’t know why this is going on here.” It’s more “I apologize on behalf of our town.”
DC: I know women who say to me, “I bought one of those boards, I thought they were sort of beautiful.” Again I think the majority of the public sees it our way. We’ve actually gotten a lot of outpouring of support. I work with a lot of women’s organizations in Vermont personally and they’ve been very supportive. I’ll call them and say “do you want to talk about this love board,” and they’ll say, “you know what, it’s OK. We don’t have a problem with it and we know your commitment to women.” Again, it was this small group who didn’t want to have a dialogue. They wanted us to remove the boards from the market period, and that was their precondition for anything. Those were the people we felt like we just couldn’t talk to.
JBC: It’s something like this that really points out who your friends are and that’s not all bad.
TWB: It’s good to see you’re getting support from the community, in the media it seemed like they were pretty down on you.
JBC: No, no, from what I hear or see it’s like ten to one or more.
TWB: What was your take on the city council’s referendum?
DC: [The protesters] were really behind that. They lobbied the city council and they didn’t think they went far enough. What the resolution actually says is that we’re supposed to sit down and talk to the agencies, which are basically these two women, and we felt like we couldn’t talk to them because they were being pretty unreasonable. I think we’re speaking out because the majority of people felt the same way we did and they wanted us to give voice to that and we also think that the graphics themselves were being distorted and misrepresented. Somebody that’s not following this story just thinks that Burton is going to the least common denominator and throwing X-rated images, so we wanted to make sure that people really understood what these graphics were all about and to give voice to how most people really feel about this.
TWB: What are your next steps if this continues to blow up?
JBC: I think we’re pretty much done. We’ve spoken our mind. We’ll just sort of go on. Unfortunately, we’re sold out of Love and Primo boards.
TWB: Do you see an upside in all this publicity?
JBC: You know I do feel like we’ve been through smaller storms of a similar nature… Invariably after a certain amount of time we look back on them with great memories and the products themselves wind up being collector’s items and cherished. So I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if down the road we wouldn’t have a great time telling the story.
TWB: You said that you’re totally sold out of these?
JBC: I can’t say that every one in every retail store around the country is sold out, but they’ve been very successful and the attention has only drawn increased demand. There are a lot of people that are trying to get a hold of them that have no intention of snowboarding.
TWB: Have you had conversations with any of the resorts or groups like Essex that have pulled out of Chill?
JBC: Obviously through Chill, but it operates pretty autonomously now and they’ve been handling that side of things.
DC: I also think that the resorts have always had policies about what their employees can or can’t wear when they’re working. You probably can’t wear a pot leaf. So what happens is this small group in Vermont started getting on the phone and writing letters to every resort and they would say, “OK, let’s add this to our policy.” And [the protesters] would come back and say, “Isn’t this a story? Let’s make a story out of this.” So was it really unusual for the resorts? No. When they started contacting the agencies that work with Chill, that’s when we said, “wait a minute.” Chill is serving a population that is so under served and to see these kids, what they get out of learning to snowboard is incredible; it’s life changing for them. So the idea that somehow you would hurt us by hurting Chill, it’s really sad.
TWB: As the industry leader, it seems like a lot of times you’re held to different standards. Do you feel that way? Do you think it’s fair?
JBC: It’s hard to say. I don’t want to be egotistical, but it’s tough at the top. Everybody is gunning for you and it comes with the territory. I’m not about to complain. This sport and this industry have done so much for Donna and I, our family, and everybody that works at this company and we are not going to whine or complain. We’ll take it as it comes. We’re thrilled with everything that has gone on in our lives and that this sport has done for us.
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November 25th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Honestly, there are more important things in life to protest. These idiots either need to get a job or focus on more important issues, such as child labor abuse, the atrocities in Irag, etc etc etc, the list goes on. I wish World Industries was still as controversial as they used to be, nothing was better than F*cked Up Blind Kids.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Can TW promise to not ever talk about this topic again?
Such a dead horse.
BTW are they editing people’s comments now? There were more than a few last time I checked, now there is just one……..
November 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I’ll say it again the people behind the protest just want a pat on the back and to be told job well done.
November 25th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
FUCK IT…
November 25th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Thanks for adding to the conversation their Pepsi. Solid input. While this story has been way over hyped and i agree that this should not be covered anymore i think it’s great that both sides are out there. It’s easy to get stuck on one side of an issue and not formulate an educated opinion from looking at all sides. If you hear out both sides of an issue you can really see who the dumb asses are - these protesters definitely made the case for the stupidity nicely.
November 25th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Where did the “Josh” at Rome Snowboards anti-Burton manifesto comment go?
November 26th, 2008 at 6:51 am
I’d say totally foreget about it. If they ban “Love”, I will tell them there is a better play to demonstrate their SINCERE concern-Playboy. If they ban “Primo”, all I can say is they do not appreciate art. Good job, Jake and Donna!!!
November 26th, 2008 at 7:03 am
It was removed because it wasn’t really from Josh at Rome. We keep a pretty hands-off censorship policy in these forums, but impersonating someone else in the industry will get you deleted.
November 26th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
It must be a great feeling to be able to stand behind your brand and show what you’ve done not only for the industry as a whole, but for Female’s in general.
It’s impossible to please everyone, and I’m very glad that the Carpenter’s recognize that and aren’t letting a couple people that happen to have the time/resources (What are their jobs anyway? Who has the time to protest?) to attempt to wage a war on a brand based on misguided directives hold their business hostage.
“TWB: And then when things like this come along you don?t have to make any concessions?
JBC: Yeah, we deal with it. Believe me, the people that these boards were designed for, if we had a protest going on outside that was 18 year-old male snowboarders lined up around the block, we?d be pretty damn responsive.”
- Perfect response!!
November 26th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
NEXT YEAR: ‘STRAP-ON’ Bindings prints.
You heard it here first folks…
November 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I am glad Jake and Donna got a chance to reply.
Well done.
As for the ladies driving the protest - “have ya checked the internet lately? There’s some crazy stuff on there!”
November 28th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Hope well see a mag cover soon with one of those ” body ” boards .
November 28th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Hippies ruin it for everyone.
November 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
no one said anything about the sims fader series a few years back and those were straight up porn stars… and anyone remember fresh jive? I agree with the post about bigger things to worry about. and woulndt it be great if people just use this to talk about snowboarding? I actually think the primo graphics are weak, but its not the kind of board I would ride anyway. and the love? semi-naked girls? who cares. maybe if people spent more time being parents and teaching kids about respect and not objectifying people, the world would be a better place…but they’d rather spend time telling me how to lead my life.
November 29th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
O.K. I totally agree that this is a dead issue!!! Nothing more to talk about!! But lets just count all the companies (skate, snow, surf) that have put women on there product (on a hard good or advertising) in a suggestive nature: Reef, Fuct, Rome, Comet, Hook-ups, Lost! I can’t think of anymore right now but mention some if you think of them. I’m pretty sure they all have.
Lets face it, no disrespect to any ladies reading this. All action sports are targeting 14-24 Males because that is the core demographic (meaning the consumers). I’ve always appreciated a good looking girl on my deck and I also appreciate all my girl friends with the utmost respect. Sex sells and Burton is sold out of the line before X-mas….enough said.
The European market must be laughing at us right now. To all those ultra-conservatives, Would you stop your 17 year old son or daughter from taking a trip to Paris to learn about culture and Art? Because you know over there T and A is used in all forms of advertising….why because it sells. I’ve seen lots of T and A on my way To the Eiffel Tower on the sides of Buses, magazines, TV commercials. Lets say it all together now “T and A”!
The whole thing is ridiculous. How in the hell do you think you have kids in the first place….BECAUSE you had SEX and nine months later little Melvin appeared!! Now you have to make sure he doesn’t make the same mistake you did and Have SEX!! Why in this country is sex such a taboo subject?
Secondly, learning to respect women comes from your relationship with your Mother. My mom would always talk to me about respecting women. She would also confiscate any porn or other material that she felt was objectifying women. And you know what? I would always find away to get my grubby little hands on some more because I was an teenage boy and that’s what they do! Doesn’t matter if it’s in a mag or on a Snowboard, We’ll find away to look at girls. I have absolutely no shame in admitting that because I know my Girl Friends would say I’m one of the nicest most respectful guys you’ll ever come across.. Thanks Mom!
Finally, Burton responded that these images were just “Art”. To all the neigh-sayers, Photograher’s have been taking pictures of Naked “people” since the birth of the negative plate glass film. I’m a photographer and these images pulled from vintage Playboys from the 60’s and 70’s are stunning. They are fun, playful, and have a great sense of humor about them. Especially because the medium used to print on is a SNOWBOARD…HA! Awesome!
If I had 14 year old son and he wanted this board I would proudly buy it for him because I know I would teach him to treat women as they should be, with the utmost respect. Besides to any Diehard 14 year old snowboarder, their snowboard is the symbol to the center of their world. IF there is a Beautiful girl on that symbol to the center of their world, it must mean they like girls A LOT.
The End.
Later
T
November 29th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I got suspended from school in 10th grade for wearing the Fuct T-shirt with the “Jaws” picture on it with a well endowed lady in place of the shark. You remember that one? Funny how the principal never commented on the name of the company FUCT.
November 30th, 2008 at 12:30 am
lol
why is my comment gone then?
November 30th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Donna’s comments about women being promoted and in leadership positions within the company and Burton having a competitive salary structure are pure fantasy.
They have done a lot for the industry and wms snowboarding as a whole no question, but they treat their employees like shit and have historically (ask anybody who has ever worked there)done their best to make people feel like there is no job security.
This graphic thing is a total joke on both ends.
November 30th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
As Jake and Donna both stated over and over again, Burton has done an enormous amount to support women and create opportunities for them within a male dominated industry. The LOVE series, unfortunately, is a GIANT ERASER for all that hard work they have done to advance and promote women. To design a series of board graphics based on the gutter-brain of an 18 year old guy (I don’t care how much of a ripper he is) is a scary, scary concept. I mean does the world really need to see visuals of what an 18 year old gets excited about? Jake even said, “our women?s and children?s lines are two of our fastest growing segments.” Hmmmmmm….should have thought about that before this series. Good luck digging yourselves out of your hole.
P.S. I LOVE how BURTON is SO against CENSORSHIP yet they are totally into CENSORING negative comments on TWS now!
November 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
where is your evidence they (burton) are censoring negative comments?
November 30th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
hey mambosok, do a search for the recent burton restricted clothing line post. you won’t find it on this site anymore. within a few hours there were tons of negative (and many were funny) comments about the line an the individual presenting the line in the article. a day later the entire post was removed because it was CLEARLY doing more harm than good to burton. burton is a very vulnerable target right now and i can easily see that if a major transworld advertiser such as burton is getting slammed in a forum created by that publication then they are going to have something to say about it (ie. pulling the post down). if i were burton though i would (and i’m sure they do) utilize these message boards as free market research. people’s opinions both good and bad will help them shape their future and by the looks of it they need all the help they can get. i grew up loving the brand and slowly they lost me somewhere. maybe we can meet up down the road someday… if they start speaking to me as a customer in a way that appeals to me now like other brands do. good luck burton!
December 1st, 2008 at 7:18 am
LIFE’S RAD tm, LIFE’S RAD tm, LIFE’S RAD tm HAPPY HOLIDAYS Snowboarding Rules and LIFE IS RAD tm.
December 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
wow. this is amazing. happy december 1st everybody on the tws biz message boards. in an apparent response to my comment above we have the return of the “burton restricted” story. check it out and see what was missing from the site for a month. thanks for reposting it. it’s quite entertaining and insightful.
December 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am
The only demographic Burton will listen to is 18-year-old male snowboarders? Just about the least sensible demographic on the face of the planet earth. And why do they listen to them — the god damn almight dollar. The Burtons are whores.
December 8th, 2008 at 11:30 am
The only demographic Burton will listen to is 18-year-old male snowboarders? Just about the least sensible demographic on the face of the planet Earth. And why do they listen to them? — the god damn almighty dollar. The Burtons are whores. No offense to whores. I’m just saying.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
PROTEST WAR
PROTEST KILLING
PROTEST ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES, DRUGS
PROTEST BAD VIBES
DONT PROTEST A STUPID BOARD GRAPHIC THAT NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT IN 10 YEARS!
LONG LIVE BURTON! GO GET A LIFE AND LOVE IT!
December 18th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Everyone missed the whole point.
1 What is the biggest difference between surfing and boarding?
2 What is the biggest difference between my fantasy graphics and
your fantasy graphics.?
3 What is the biggest difference between (Burton Corporation,Lehman Brothers, AIG, Citibank) and a new, young, great start-up company?
The answers lie in 1 freedom of use
2 respect
3 humility
January 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
peole are spazez and need to take a chill pill or something!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:20 am
Look,
If you sold easy bake ovens, would you market to anyone except for 4-8 year old girls?
If you sold Viagra, would you market to anyone except old men who couldn’t get hardons?
If you sold designer belly button rings, would you market to anyone except 15-25 year old girls?
Your argument is complete bullshit.
Burton markets to the people who buy their boards. People like me. I’m a 23 year old male. I enjoy Burton boards and product because they are high quality and are made locally (I live in VT).
Just because you sell something that promotes exercise, free thought, and individuality to people who will buy it doesn’t make you a whore.
Quit being a troll.
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:22 am
Did you seriously just group Burton Snowboards with Lehman Brothers, AIG, and Citibank!?
I hope I don’t have to explain to you why that’s complete garbage.
Publically traded banks do not equal popular privately owned snowboarding companies.